you'll find a community of people. it's a fledgling community. people like me and jeff tucker, we're trying to find out how to live liberty. we are tired, as i said, about being depressed. we're tired about looking at the state and railing and raising our fists and saying pig of a government. we'll always do it, there's going to be injustice, and that's a valid response, and i can't help my fist from raising in the air. but the fact of the matter is we want to live free, and we want to know how to grow tomatoes in liberty and like our neighbors and be valuable members of the community. to some degree, i'd rather be a good neighbor than a good libertarian, and i don't think there's a conflict there, but if i had to choose, i'd probably choose the good neighbor. >> host: wendy mcelroy is the author of "the art of being free." you're watching booktv on c-span2. ..

to talk about his excellent new book the "boston globe" called reflective, raunchy and refunding that get that kind of press and live a life like fax.

the topic will remind us we have a presidential campaign going on in which there is a human cry about what is truth and what is fact and what is a fly and the rhetorical exaggeration there was a time in history when there were really great flyers. remember goldwater talking about nixon i can't tell you what he said about richard nixon because this is a family library and the family television tonight. but there was a time. just very briefly and clinton as a family with a certain kind of character here on page 150 assembling about the draft one

subject only and the identity sometimes he outright lie. more often he shaded the truth ceasing to feel entitled to constructive events in ways that work to his own benefits. i happen to be at yale in the number of graduate when they were in law school together and the one wonders about the attraction and then one reads the second which is about tenet start interviewing hillary clinton. i could tell you a story who i had dinner with at precisely this time but this would go on too long. in the end he determined that he didn't have enough evidence to indict hillary clinton. examples of disingenuous statements of disclaimers and outright confiscation were abundant. something your regular and perhaps illegal had taken place with of the first lady much more than her husband at the heart of

it. and we to understand the attraction the clintons had for each other. [laughter] [booing] i am quoting from the author -- [applause] who was one of the great historians of liberalism, no comment about that. notice i am restrained. and in a gender and racial equality in the history of this country he is a historian ph.d. from columbia dena and the baldwin professor of history at duke university. the author of a number of excellent books, and i'd like to and my introduction on a more nonpartisan note you would be happy to know. i read one of his previous books which is a book that i really, really liked about the man, a great liberal at his core a great left liberal and a book

called never stop running. he was one of the people responsible for the creation of the new left movement if you well in american politics but he was also a man that increased larger ideas in american politics and symbolized by the fact that at his funeral he was killed by a deranged mentally defective colleague of his at the age of 51 in his office but in his funeral made back-to-back by ted kennedy and bill buckley that's the time in american politics and history we could remember after the last decade or two of complete partisanship and it's something that william has written eloquently about and has written about the problems of the clinton family in this

book bill and hillary the ladies and gentlemen, please welcome william chafe. [applause] >> i'm thrilled to see this audience and grateful. i'm certainly impressed. i thought i would begin by telling you a little bit about my career and how i can to write this book as it has been indicated before i didn't start as a biographer i started as a social historian and i wrote about the women's movement. only towards the last ten years i found these questions of what makes an individual try to change history. i would argue this is actually a

strong coherence in all of this because when we are writing about socialism, writing about the setting students in the movement with what happened how do they get the mind? wendi did that within some of the administration's in the city's and in the 90 different states because the young individuals decided to make history. that got me interested in the world making history, and it helps to highlight what makes someone come to the point acting decisively in the historical moment and change things?

so over time i have come to value the idea as a personal and a political coming together. i wrote a book called public lives which started an essay. the more i looked at the clintons' the more i became aware of how incredibly important their personal chemistry was, but the shading in history in the last word in the 20th century and that is what i want to talk to you about tonight. because at the heart of the relationship, the way in which the function together, the way in which their chemistry interacted with each other in order to create the kind of partnership that ultimately led them to a very critical period being in charge in this country

where does it all began? the begin with their childhood of course and one thing we have to recognize is because bill clinton talking about one of the dysfunctional challenges. he was an amazing woman and write a biography she spent 90 minutes putting makeup on. while she's doing that she tells you the autobiography and she was doing that so she could hide who she really was. she really didn't want come to grips with this and had a relationship with her mother and loved her father as did bill who had a relationship with his mother but what his grandfather they were not willing to confront the realities so she went off to school and met a man

who told her he was a salesman and they fell in love, they married two months later and he went off to italy. he'd never been a salesman, he'd always been in the army. she didn't know until 40 years later he had been married three married her. when he came back from italy, he was still a driving back from chicago to words arkansas to see virginia. a bill had not been born. they went back to school leaving a bill to be raised by his grandmother and grandfather for the first two years. then she fell in love with another person. she also didn't know he had been married four times and had been accused in and not only the divorce case against him but physical abuse of a spouse.

they both liked to drink and party and they both were flirtatious but soon it became clear that this was a family where alcoholism and abuse were a normal part of their daily life. bill is raised in that family and becomes the instrument of saving that family. he frequently comes upon the stepfather beating his mother and he saves her from those dealings and promising he will never let that happen again. one of the things you learn, people in that kind of a family dynamic is that the child likes bill clinton begins to feel like he has the responsibility of bringing redeeming, creating honor where there is this honor so he said delta be the person that is going to rescue and renew this family. he's an incredible student,

became very active in boys nation which is a kind of junior american nominated to go to washington as the nation's candidate for u.s. senate, goes to washington. he's already 6 feet tall and strives to the front of the line when they go to the white house to see president kennedy. and then kennedy finishes his speech. bill clinton comes forward and get his picture taken alongside john f. kennedy. he is so proud and he already is dedicated to the idea that he is going to be the person that is hindering complete honor to his family. by the age of 17 he already is planning to be elected the attorney general of arkansas, governor of arkansas and then president of the united states. this is something that everyone who knows him knows about because he talks about all the time he doesn't go to the university of arkansas he goes to georgetown and becomes the

arkansas candidate for the fellowship and goes to oxford. he is an incredible success everywhere but he cannot have a sustained ongoing relationship with a woman. he is attracted to the kind of women his mother direct him to our the beauty queens, the ones that offer, who are attractive and that is where his i has been. so he comes back to law school. there he meets hillary. now, she writes in her own and more as if her child were no less on idiolect but it wasn't. her mother was an amazing human being. her other was born to a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old. they were in los angeles and when she was 8-years-old, her parents put her and her 3-year-old brother on a train by

themselves to go back from los angeles to chicago. there she continued to be mistreated by her grandparents until finally she was able to get off on her own and she went to work as a secretary in a factory. the owner of the factory married dorothy not year he was strong, she didn't communicate very well, she frequently had vicious arguments with his wife in which he spoke disparagingly to her. he wasn't that nice to his own children. one example is that as a child left the top of the toothpaste a jar in the bathroom he would take that off and threw it in the snow and make the child go and find it.

basically dorothy was hilary's mother who essentially sustain her in three ways. first of all, she was deeply christian, she was a very active methodist, she wanted hillary to get them at the disfellowship and she met a young wonderful pastor named don jones and he was the one that helped introduce her to the whole issue of the morality of justice fighting for civil rights and things like that. dorothy also helped hillary sustain people. if they were intimidating her. and she made hillary a very proud young woman but she also conveyed a pivotal lesson and that lesson is there's nothing in the world more important than saving your family. you must hold on to your family,

protect your children and don't even consider the issue of divorce. now clearly this is a reflection of her own experience. never give up. never give up on your family. he comes back from oxford and goes to yale and he's kind of troubled. i'm not sure how many of you know but it's not at all infrequent that students don't go to class because they're often in political campaigns from social activists. for the first three months he was at yale law school he was very active in politics. hillary was very active also and in that first year became very close to marian edelman and she was committed to a series of social issues and was a leader all during her time at wellesley

and yale. a leader that was a reformer, who was an activist but never stopped listening to people around her and tried to build bridges to people and the president or the dean of law school. well, the story about how the net is that they kept on staring at each other across the room and one day hillary goes up to him in the library and says look if we are right to keep on looking at each other this way, don't you think we should introduce ourselves to each other and find out who each other is? that is the story that is commonly told. the other one that i like better is about the fact that bill was attracted to this young woman who was so totally distant from his mother. she never wore makeup, she had coca-cola eyeglasses and she never wore smart clothes and she was basically a nerd and a good

marriage. laughter could be of their story is that he was a leader, she followed her to registration even though he already registered and then they snuck in together to see the exhibit and then they talked for a long time and the next day bill called and she said she was sick and bill made chicken soup and to get to her. i like that story. anyway, shortly thereafter they became a couple. they fought viciously all the time but they also made up beautifully and they were very kind to each other and they were very giving of each other and this is the key. these were personalities that were incredibly different from each other. bill was full of at fact. he was the emotional one. he couldn't stop making friends, reaching out to people, invoking all kinds of emotional tides.

hillary was hard nosed, structured, disciplined, noticed. get to it, she would say. make the point. they would say before the judge. he was always making the emotional arguments and -- she was making the hard knows the legal arguments and basically they were acting out in some ways he was being classically feminine and she was being masculine in some of the things she was doing. because they fell in love and live together, bill proposed. he never thought he was going to do this but he proposed in new england on a trip back from tergiversation command basically hillary said i'm not sure that i'm ready for this. why was she not ready for this? well they both wanted to work for the mcgovern campaign in

texas, hillary in the san antonio. she was brilliant and she was working with a wonderful person named betsy wright who became a lifelong supporter of hers and devotee said you are going to be the first woman president. you are a feminist, you take for what you believe in and you are going to become the first woman president. and hillary really did. but this incredible political outreach to stick to large audiences and mobilize people hillary is torn. what does she do and how does she do it? bill is not someone who knows about that philanderer in 1974 when she's working in washington she knows bill has had a number of relationships.

she sends her brother to the campaign to help out but in fact to watch him and the campaign is so much when they come in the west a college crowd out of the headquarters. initially the college girl leaves the campaign and get married to someone else but is aware of the fact this is an ongoing attention so she's confused to what to do. she moved to arkansas and she basically finally make the decision that it's worth the gamble. they are in love with each other. they complement each other. they each have skills the the other does not have. and as long as they can work together she believes it is more likely that as partners they can achieve their goal of political the transforming the country than if each one were to face their own individual qualities

and pursue them on their own. it's interesting. she finds her wedding dress the night before in the store and they didn't go on a honeymoon but they are a together a couple and it is out of that contest he was elected as the attorney general and then as the governor of arkansas reelected in this country. it is a fascinating period of time. one of the things that is most interesting is if you look at the first two years of the clinton gubernatorial term in dhaka and salles islam is a replica of the first two years of the clinton administration in washington. it's total chaos. there is no chief of staff, there is no structure. he's asking for ten things at once not one in particular. bill knows to other people and they fight all the time to read this conflict and they get

themselves into big trouble because he ends up supporting the tax bill to get more money to fix the roads. the tax bill is one which actually put a heavier tax on the vehicles than on the white ones which means the working people are paying most of the money for the taxes and it is totally unpopular. at the same time, a whole slew come over from havana and president carter decides to relocate most of the men arkansas and this isn't popular. so even though bill clinton has 57% of the vote and 78 he goes down to d.c. in 1980 and he is dismayed and despondent and suffering incredible depression and hillary stetson and rescues him. she says we will organize the campaign we will create a structure.

this political bureau from new york who actually worked in the politics for a while and he pulled the hell out of every question they asked and got all of the right answers how to appeal to the people of arkansas and hillary basically to the campaign together in such a way that it was a streamlined effort that is ultimately a very successful backup to 57, 58% of the vote in 1982. at that moment in time, they are partners in exchange she becomes the most important single person in this administration. he puts her in charge of the education task force in words that are almost exactly the ones he used ten years later in the health care task force. i want the most important reform of my administration to be able to be closest to the person and that's hillary. she puts together a coalition

that holds them successful and she succeeds in attacking the legislation that is needed and she brings arkansas from being 49th in the country to a much more competitive position bill becomes the leading the governor and he actually is thinking about running for president in 1988 and he's been around since 1988. and he's about to make the announcement for that candidacy and he is called a press conference and brings all of his friends and two things happen. betsey wright is now the chief of staff says to him bill, you know, you're philandering is going to be an issue in this campaign. she had a list of 30 to 40 women he had been with. so she went to see bill clinton and talked to him candidly and at this and he was talking candidly to her. he said you know, another 10i

already knew about. and she said you've got to be ready to deal with it if you are going to run for office. and the next day that might chelsea comes to her dad, she is now 8-years-old and she says what are we going to do on vacation next summer? and he says well, you know we probably aren't going to take a vacation because i'm going to run for presidency. she's a dhaka i will go with mom and we will have a great time. and bill starts to think and realized i'm about to lose money relationship with my 8-year-old daughter and it's not the right time to do this and so he makes this big announcement that he's not going to run for the presidency he is going to devote more time to his family. one of the things that is going on here that you will see again and again is we took a roller-coaster some one that succeeds big time again and succeeds big time again.

and then we are not sure. so after that announcement kit is a huge depression kind of like he did in 1980, and for the first time she develops a long-term relationship with another woman. he's so in love with her that he asks hillary for a divorce. a two and a half year relationship. hillary says no i'm not going to do it. it's almost as if she is hearing her mother's voice. she says no, i am not going to do it. i want to stay together and go to marriage counseling and pastoral counseling and they did and a year-and-a-half later he is ready to recommit to the

relationship he's always said he loves both women coming in the net period of time the beginning of 1991 probably no time the had been more together as a couple with a common purpose, a common goal and the way to proceed to get it so they are working together for him to become a candidate for the presidency in the united states. but they also know that problem is out there and hillary is always pre-empted. she knows it is printed, and she isn't going to attack bill. she's went to basically try to help them come out of that okay and in good shape and so in the summer of 1991 they have breakfast with the washington correspondent for a politically' important people they raised the

issue of the rumors of bill's philandering and hillary says i want you all to know that we have trouble in our lives as married couples. but we love each other. we believe in each other. i love my husband and we are going to stay together for the rest of our lives and they are blown away by her commitment. what they don't know is that this is a dress rehearsal because nine months later when bill is soaring in the polls and almost on top of the new hampshire primary found the senator from massachusetts at that very moment jennifer says that she has had a 12 year love affair with bill clinton and his the tape recordings to prove its

hillary stetson immediately and takes over and before you know what they had this breakfast on 60 minutes. after the super bowl the largest tv viewing audience you could imagine and they are magnificent and hillary is the one who says i've had a good marriage. yes there have been problems that we are going to stay together because we believe in each other and in our common goal. she's literally rescued the presidential candidacy. the poll numbers plummeted because of the fallacy churches. they come back up and all during that period of time he is talking about hillary as the president to for the price of one. he's been instrumental in increasing her leverage and power and ability to make a huge difference and that is the

context with which they entered the white house. there is a series of issues that can take place. the new relationship that has existed where in effect hillary is asking the role alongside of al gore and bill clinton they sign off on most decisions. she insisted on not having a strong chief of staff, that it would be a threat to the power she is now exercising. she announced that she will become -- she is going to become the chair of the initiative domestic reform initiative of the administration. she basically suppresses the instinct of a whole variety of people in the white house to say we should get welfare reform first because it is going to win over a bunch of conservatives and that is the credibility to

go forward and chief health care reform. she said no, healthcare reform, first. she goes and visits the senators, democratic senators and says we are going to do this all by ourselves we aren't going to compromise your men to get 100% of what we want and demonize the republicans, people like bill bradley and patrick moynihan are astound. how can you talk this way? we have to work with these people but she insists we will have 100%, not 95%. she could have 95% in the time that year. the republican from rhode island and people that are willing to go to 95%. no, we are going to go all the way. she is the person who says we're going to bar the white house press corps from entering the white house or the press secretary is. she's the one who five years the travel date. these are the people taking care of the reports they don't want to alienate those reporters, and

then when it becomes a huge scandal she instructs vincent foster to hide any indication that she's been involved in all of this. but perhaps the most important thing she says it's clinton who knows that he is in trouble brings on david gergen, he has been a republican and major figure of the u.s. world report, a pivotal figure in washington politics. clinton brings them into drilled the they could build bridges. the list there to make available to the post of the papers including from the law firm and if they find nothing criminal in those papers, they would promise to completely defend the integrity of the clintons and wipe away the scandal. bill clinton says that's a good

idea. george stephanopoulos says that is a good idea. most people say that is a good idea. but bill and hillary says no. those are my papers in the potomac river if i want to i will not make those available. that is in december of 1993. the consequences are in measurable. immediately the "washington post" and "the new york times" organized huge campaigns investigating what happened in light water. the coverage of whitewater and the next six months three times as much as health care. at the same time they demand growth and clinton cannot resist it so he announces there will be a special prosecutor to look into whitewater. kenneth starr goes after hillary

primarily but he can't get her because she's very effective he persists the effort to do so and that is what leads us ultimately to see linda trippi and impeachment. there's that one decision not to bring the papers to the "washington post" sets in motion a sequence that ultimately leads to the scandal and to the impeachment process. after the first 18 months, it's clear health care isn't going to go anywhere. nevertheless, hilary enzus that in his 1994 state of the union message, bill clinton says i will veto anything less than 100% of what we are asking for. i will veto it. everyone thinks that is crazy. health care goes down and the

1994 election happens and clinton as devastated and 81 congressional seats are lost. everything kind of falls apart. hillary is no longer in the role she's been playing. she starts writing the book and becomes much more involved as an advocate for women and children are of the world. she becomes much more spiritual and bill takes the advice with whom hillary has called back to the white house and proceed with a whole series of water called mitch reforms. these 100,000 new police on the ground tax cut and then comes oklahoma city and a bill wants to get to the top he has a creature in the country he's magnificent in bringing people together. on the other side is new

gingrich in his contract with america and the determination to basically take bill clinton down and it's a total failure. they shut down the government twice. every time they do something like that clinton goes up in popularity, and he has this extraordinary victory in 1996 which is a stunning. this is the third come back yet, 1982 and arkansas, and the reelection in 1996 he is at the peak of discretion does in this roller-coaster but when you were there you've got to think what is going on below because in that same period of time bill clinton's carry on a of fair. it's crazy, it's stupid, it's in same. new year's eve, easter sunday

come 16 months, and when he gets moved out of the white house because enough people are concerned about how much is in the president's office because they transfer the pentagon she makes a new best friend, linda tripp and she tape records every conversation and hands it all down and guess what linda tripp is in contact with a bunch of right-wing people that get the information directly to kenneth starr and get the paula jones trial and bill clinton is asked to testify and he's asked the question did you ever have sex with a woman named monica lewinski and he says no, i never did. no, i never did clinton claims he's telling the truth because from his point of view sex is intercourse. the scandal breaks.

he says i did not have sex with her. she came to me, she was troubled, i tried to take care of her and do what i could. and hillary stands by him 100%. first of all she doesn't believe it when given the surveillance in the white house she believes that the therapy that they have done has been sufficient to restore that relationship. bill is very insecure at that point. the first thing bill clinton does after the charges are made is he asks morris to a poll on whether the american people would have accepted, and he reports back to him and says it will accept the deal will not accept lavina under oath and so he says can in their. but he recalled the first time

by jim lehrer on the evening news and he's asked about he says there is no sexual relationship. he is weak and uses the present tense of the verb. surely once again they stood in and go on the today show and says it is part of a right-wing conspiracy but it's more than that. they basically put them in the position of outright denial. he basically by stein and the american people become more comfortable with the idea of a president who may have actually done this. when finally he asked to testify before the federal grand jury hillary has to make the final decision of her life to rescue him again. this time he's told her yes, i

did have a relationship with monica lewinski and he asked for forgiveness and for the last time she says i will stand by you, i will stick by you. i will not abandon you. that is pivotal because this is a moment in time when a number of senators, democrat and republican were considering going to the white house and saying to the president you should resign just like they did what richard nixon. but hillary was standing there beside her and essentially rescued him and also rescued her she liberated herself at that moment because this is the last time she has been able to do this and she could now think about her own career and at the same time she is standing beside bill clinton over monica lewinski she's talking to the people who wanted to run for the

senate. on the day of the impeachment in the u.s. senate she is having a meeting with a campaign team about the new york campaign. in many respects she goes back and becomes the person she was as a student at yale, a centrist, a consensus person building bridges, listening to people, finding out what they want to have happen. she becomes incredibly successful. she builds bridges. among her best friends are john mccain and lindsey graham. so they are now in a very different place. he always was an effective economic president and almost redeems himself by bringing peace to the middle east. she is off doing incredibly important work in new york and

she becomes an independent person one more time. they are still together, they still are in love but now she is the person in charge and her career is at stake. we have never had this kind of story in the american white house. we have never had this kind of personal chemistry, personal chemistry which both incredibly enriches our understanding of what to face during those years and also leaves us with an abundance of unanswered questions. mabus your turn to ask the questions and i will answer. thank you. [applause] ladies and gentlemen if you have

a question for professor chafe please come up to the microphone and please ask as a question, no statements on the introduction which would be appropriate. [laughter] >> i can't see that many hands some people off to start walking up to the microphone. >> i had 25 questions the other night. [laughter] >> not that i want 400 questions. yes, ma'am. >> in your opinion do you think hillary clinton will run for president in 2016? >> yes, i do. [applause] i think that in 2008 she had a campaign that wasn't very well run by bill's people, by mark penn who was the number one

associate, and i think that bill lost control room the campaign and said some things would trigger the health care candidacy. i think that she is now showing a measure of play is and skill that is very deeply impressive, and i would argue that one of the things he accomplished in his speech before is definitely one of the high points of a rollercoaster. one of the things that happened in that speech is that he solidified his own reputation as having been an extraordinary president if not the most successful, extraordinary coming and he also paved the way for hillary's candidacy in 2015. >> as a follow-up, when hillary does run in 2016, how will she managed bill and what kind of a role do you think that he will

have? [laughter] [applause] >> they live apart for most ever since she went to the senate. i think they talk on the phone a great deal. i think they sat close but i think they are not going to live together for a long time in new york and my bet will be she is going to run her own campaign, and i would think that if she is elected i would be very surprised to move full-scale into the white house and of course he thinks he's going to die young so whether he thinks he is going to survive that i'm not sure. >> do uzi a comparison between clinton and fdr and eleanor? >> i'm sorry do i see any

comparison between hillary and bill's marriage and eleanor and nixon? the reason i say no is that yes franklin and eleanor were very much political colleagues starting in 1922 when fdr contracted polio she was his political surrogates and represented him on numerous occasions the democratic party together. she headed the women's democratic national committee. she was very interested in many of the reforms of the new deal, but franklin had an affair with the private assistant and when she found out about that, she wanted a divorce, and that was the end of the marital relationship. the political relationship remained intact but they never became intimate people again. so the reason is that they had called out jury distinctive roles. a very important and eleanor was

an extraordinary first lady but it's now something that was a product of the personal chemistry and other ongoing intimate relationship. >> if hillary is a bridge builder, what happened with the health care and what would she have done differently if she did it today? >> i think she would have made the compromise with john chafe. why did all that happened? i think it happened because folks in arkansas and in washington she fought in the bill fought more than he did have a war in the washington establishment. they detested both of them. bill clinton frequently lied to the press. they didn't like him at all and she didn't like the press at all that's why she did this thing with the press corps, and i

think that her position at that point was that if she gave up anything she might give up everything so she really held on to get into this kind polarized attitude with the right-wing conspiracy argument, so i think that she lost what she had in college and law school which was the sense that her role was never to alienate someone and how fearful she was that she would lose what she was succeeding in gaining. >> would you comment on the relationship between president clinton and president obama and how it sits? >> i think none of us know fully with that relationship is in the

bill clinton made a very conscious decision that it was to his self-interest and he makes the case for obama's reelection that they couldn't make himself of all of these complicated questions. and number of things that he put on the table of the democratic convention and talks us through or incredible. they're very different people. they are probably the two smartest people in the united states, but i think that bill clinton couldn't make up his mind. he would make a decision and then reverse it. he was up until 3:00 in the

morning debating these things. barack obama doesn't work that way. she gets all of these opinions, he hands them out and he has a sense of what his timeframe is to make a decision and then he makes the decision. so, they're very different in their style. that is why the white house was frequently chaotic. >> as sort of a follow-up to your question but to the response if she is a bridge builder again sometimes they do better i won't say behind the scenes but less in the front. how does that jive with media president who isn't necessarily a bridge builder that needs to be a leader is shia more capable leader or more capable bridge builder? >> i think we know the answer to that question. i would say that here are the different models of the president. fdr began as a consensus and president to try to create by

partisanship and then by 1934 from 35, the league started and people become very, very partisan in their political response and he became himself partisan denouncing the economic royalists in the campaign saying i see one-third of the nation. then you look at lyndon johnson. lyndon johnson was probably the most effective legislator ever to live in the white house. how did johnson do that? first by manipulating people and twisting arms, you know, how did lyndon johnson get the civil rights back past clacks she had ever did tricks and every single night. and they would talk through it all and basically ended voting for cloture. i don't think that hillary clinton is going to drink scotch

every night but she would basically try to work with people like lindsey graham assuming that he is still in the senate and basically try to create these kinds of collisions. i think that obama thought he had that with john boehner. hillary would have handled it differently i think's. >> susan mcdougal, james carville and what led to the suicide of foster? he has a lot of psychological abnormalities, and he is very manipulative and when he proposed the whitewater deal bill wasn't interested at all that hillary thought of as a very good idea.

jim mcdougal is kind of sick. susan mcdougal, his wife, was an incredible person who never betrayed her confidence and trust, and she is treated scandalously by kenneth starr who had her manifold and put her and saw that her confinement. it was horrible in which he treated her until finally. james carville i think anybody when you talk about james carville probably won an academy award. [laughter] i'm not that person. i'm sorry that is the most tragic event that one can see. vincent foster and hillary clinton were best friends.

they had to much politics and not enough time to be in the law firm. [inaudible] it was incredible when he went to the white house, that relationship changed and someone to give orders to and she gave orders to handle the trouble and suppress the evidence of her involvement breschel also put him in charge of the whitewater papers. his comment was that this was a can of worms and was a can of worms. their relationship basically lost its flavor and there's one incredibly tragic story he

became depressed and went to a psychiatrist and got into it a presence but they had not kicked in. about a week before he killed himself, hubbell and foster and hillary and she said let's have dinner this weekend like old times and they said let's do saturday night there were going to have drinks and go to an italian restaurant. they were together, a phone call comes to the white house and hilary says we can't make it for drinks we have a crisis. someone in the family disappeared. we will see what the restaurant. they go to the restaurant and another phone call comes. we can't make it to dinner we have to stay here at which point

vince foster turns his chair ntay from the table, stairs of vince foster turns his chair away from the table, stairs of the window and says not another word during the entire dinner and seven days later he tells himself. the night before he killed himself, bill clinton worried about him and asked him to come to the white house to go to see a movie together. vince foster says no one watching a movie here at home. the movie he is watching have the final scene in which the person put a gun in his mouth and shot himself and that is when the next day. they said it was pure ciardi of tragedy, harper. >> what is it that chelsea's nanny discovered the missing dillinger records of whitewater? >> there is a direct connection between when their records were

discovered and the fact that today's earlier k. memorandum was published by one of the people that handled the entire whitewater affair for the white house staff. this was all getting a very public and was going to happen fast. and i think that person decided it was better to come clean and the records were there than to continue to say that they had been lost. >> the clintons did a remarkable job of keeping chelsea out of the limelight has have you. where does she fit in? >> i think that she was incredibly important to both of them and hillary was acting on

her believe nothing is more important than the family and the bill was devoted to her. i think they were successful in being able to keep her childhood when the lewinski affair broke and then bill finally confessed to hillary that he had this relationship with lewinski he said you have to be the one that goes and tells chelsea. >> ladies and gentlemen, thanks. [applause]